Real FITBODY clients all over 45 with Julie Lohre.
Directly with IFBB Fitness Pro Julie Lohre
Online Fitness Coach for Women Over 40
Get in the Best Shape of Your Life.
Lose body fat, build lean muscle, and reshape your body with training and nutrition built for your hormones, your schedule, and your real life.
Not an app. Not an assistant.
Reshaped her body at 50, though she says the bigger change was internal. Her confidence soared and she was finally free of body image issues.
Lost 40 lbs with 7 inches off her waist. This fit grandmother is stronger, faster, and healthier.
Dropped more than 40 lbs and cut her body fat in half, building muscle while losing fat through perimenopause.
This 40 year old mom dropped ten points of body fat in under six months, all while eating more than she thought possible.
Leaner and visibly more defined, with muscle built rather than weight simply lost.
Mila built visible lean muscle while losing body fat at 51. The scale stayed about the same, but her body totally changed!
Motivation | Accountability | Results
Right fit for you?
Built for Women Who Are Done Guessing
As an IFBB Fitness Pro, Women’s Fitness Expert, and Certified Nutrition Specialist with 20+ years of experience and 2,000+ women coached worldwide, I bring the full depth of my FITBODY Recomposition System™ to every client I work with. Personalized training, strategic nutrition, and real adjustments based on your data. Not a generic program. Not an app. Me, working directly with you.
That approach fits some women better than others, which is worth knowing before we talk.
This is for you if
- You are ready to stop guessing and follow a structured plan built specifically for your body, because the approaches that worked in your 20s are not cutting it anymore.
- You want to follow a personalized training and nutrition strategy rather than keep improvising, so that the hard work you put in actually shows.
- You want to work directly with a true women’s fitness expert who specializes in the unique needs and challenges women face in their 40s and 50s.
- You have some exercise experience and feel comfortable implementing workouts on your own time at home or in a gym.
- You care about long term body composition, strength, and health, and you want coaching built around the metabolic, hormonal, and lifestyle realities women face, especially after 40.
This is not for you if
- You need someone physically beside you correcting each rep, or you have a limitation that genuinely needs hands-on supervision.
- You are looking for a team environment, group calls, or an interactive Facebook group.
- You have an eating disorder or other nutritional challenge that is best handled by a medical professional.
- You need daily phone calls and text support.
- You want extreme results like losing a large amount of weight in a few weeks, or you want the fastest possible result regardless of what it costs you.
- You are totally new to exercise or have never done any type of workouts in your life.
Women’s Fitness Expert
Certified Personal Trainer
Certified Nutrition Specialist
Online Coaching Pioneer Since 2004
Who you will actually be working with
I Built FITBODY & I Am Your Coach.
I began coaching women online in 2004, before the category even existed. There were no apps, no platforms, no one else offering this as a service, and no ready made programs to buy. FITBODY was built from scratch, based on my extensive scientific research and experience with real clients. With my background as a research engineer, every part of my program has been methodically refined and improved over the years based on what actually works in practice, not just theory.
- IFBB Fitness Pro, one of a small number of women worldwide to earn pro status, with 25 competitions behind me including the Fitness Olympia and the Arnold Classic.
- More than 20 years coaching women, over 2,000 of them, all online, all one on one.
- Lived experience as a woman in menopause and a two time breast cancer survivor. I understand the unique needs and challenges of women through perimenopause and menopause along with medical challenges.
- Covers and features in Oxygen, FLEX, Muscle and Fitness Hers, Ironman, Sports Illustrated, Women’s Health, and Fitness RX for Women.
- NBC’s The Biggest Loser, where I filmed a trainer audition in 2011. I did not get it. Fifteen more years of coaching women one at a time turned out to be the better job. Watch the audition tape.
On the cover
As featured in
Julie Lohre has been featured in Oxygen, Women’s Health, Muscle and Fitness Hers, Flex, Sports Illustrated, Clean Eating, and Readers Digest, and competed on NBC’s American Ninja Warrior. The Biggest Loser logo links to her 2011 trainer audition tape.
What you get
Training and Nutrition Guidance Built for Your Body & Life
Whether you have a significant amount of weight to lose or want to reshape and strengthen your body through a recomposition, I help you achieve the strength, confidence, and metabolism that will serve you for years to come. Personal, one on one online fitness and nutrition coaching backed by my time tested and research driven FITBODY Recomposition System™, built around your body, your equipment, and your real life.
Training built for you
- Full exercise plans created for YOUR body to enhance your strengths and bring up your weak points
- Gym or home, using the equipment you actually have access to
- Workouts that change as your body changes so you do not stall
- Cardio and conditioning that support you without taking over your life.
Nutrition to support you
- Realistic macro based plans with genuine flexibility in what you eat
- Calories balanced to protect your metabolism
- New plans created every two weeks based on how you respond
- True variety with uncomplicated foods you actually want to eat. You are never limited to bland and repetitive foods
Tracking that tells the full picture
- Photos and measurements every two weeks
- The FITBODY Fit Test every four weeks
- Strength, flexibility, and conditioning tracked alongside the scale
- Expert adjustments based on your body and your needs
Pro guidance and accountability, directly
- I write every plan and read every check-in myself
- No assistants, no team, and no app standing between you and your coach
- Ongoing support. Anytime you have questions or need anything, I am there for you! No limits on messages or questions.
- Twenty plus years of coaching women behind every interaction. You’re not working with a 20-year-old Instagram influencer or a gym bro. You’re working with a woman who has been in the room for the hard parts.
Feel as good as you look
Energy, sleep, and strength improve right alongside the mirror. Looking the part is only half of it.
Become your strongest self
Progressive strength work that changes with your body. Most women end up lifting heavier than they ever have.
Learn balanced, healthy nutrition
Macros with real flexibility that stoke your metabolism, no fad diets or dangerous weight loss tactics.
How this is different
Personal Because It Actually Is
There is a whole category of online coaching built around groups, calls and community. It works for some women. It is not what my FITBODY Online Fitness & Nutrition Coaching is about. Here is the difference so you can decide which is right for you.
You Are Not Waiting Your Turn
All communication is private and directly with me. There are no weekly video calls with twenty other women, no ’round the room’, no posting your progress on social, and nothing you are expected to share out loud to earn your place.
Nothing Here Depends on a Group
No forum, no daily challenge, no leaderboard, no group chat that goes quiet when you fall behind. Your progress is between you and your plan, and it does not require an audience.
Tracking Is a Tool, Not a Rule
Some women track everything and it helps. Others find it takes over. If logging is not serving you, we build visual consistency and a repeatable structure instead. You do not have to hand me a food diary to get results.
Your Plan Is Built Around You
Your training and nutrition are built around your body, your equipment, your schedule, your injury history and how you have responded so far. When any of that changes, the plan changes with it.
This is not cheerleading. It is accountability and coaching for real life, and the difference shows up in your results rather than in your feed.
You deserve coaching that is actually personal.
Get Started NowI read and answer every application myself.
The method behind the plans
How My FITBODY Recomposition System™ Works
While your experience will be highly personal, there is a proven system behind the methodology. It is the reason two women with the same goal get two different plans, and the reason your plan in month six looks nothing like your plan in week one.
Your Starting Point Is Assessed, Not Assumed
Before anything is written I look at how you are currently eating, your training background, your injury history, your dieting history, and how consistent your week actually is. Most women arrive either under-eating, eating without structure, or wildly inconsistent between weekdays and weekends. Where your calories start is calculated from the full picture, not from a generic chart. What I will tell you is that everything I assign is with your long term health and metabolism in mind. No fad dieting and no ridiculous low calorie diets.
Strength Built Through Progressive Overload
Week one you learn the movements at moderate weight. Weeks two and three you add load where form is solid. Week four you push to beat your best. Then I create new workouts around your actual results. Strength is the priority, daily movement supports it, and cardio sits underneath both for functional endurance.
Macros That Move With Your Response
Your macro split is determined based on your specifics, not pulled from a chart. Protein is prioritized to protect muscle and manage appetite, complex carbohydrates to fuel the training you are actually doing, and fats to support hormones and keep you satisfied. You get a target, a sample day of eating, and clear permission to swap foods. Every two weeks that target is revised and I provide you a new sample meal plan for variety. You NEVER need to eat the same thing for months at a time!
Photos and Your Feedback First. Then Measurements, Performance and Weight.
Photos along with your detailed feedback drive decisions. Measurements and scale weight support the trend. Performance in the FITBODY Fit Test confirms whether your body is adapting. Biofeedback, meaning energy, hunger, sleep and recovery, tells me whether the plan is sustainable. The scale gives us just one piece of information. In many of the before and after photos on this page the woman actually weighs more, with a significantly leaner and more toned body.
The last part is the part most programs skip. Adjustments are small, intentional and made on trends. Your plan does not change because of one hard weekend, one spike on the scale or one missed session. It changes when the pattern says something real.
Getting started
What Happens After You Reach Out
You never pay a thing before we speak. The first two steps cost you nothing but the time it takes to fill in the form and chat with me directly.
Tell me about you
Fill out the form at the bottom of this page and tell me where you are now and what your goals are. I read every one myself and email you back with the program details and the current investment. From there I send my full intake paperwork, and you send it back with photos showing where you are starting. Everything comes directly to me and is completely confidential.
We talk it through
Before anything else, we get on the phone. I want your history, what has worked, what has not, and what you actually want out of this. You get honest answers about what is realistic and how long it will take. You never pay a thing before we speak and there is no obligation.
I get to work on your plans
Once we have determined that we are a good match, I begin creating your starting plans. Within 2 to 3 days you have your first programs in hand, written for your body and the equipment you have, along with my FITBODY Online Training Handbook, the FITBODY Fitness Journal, and your progress tracking sheet.
You get me, not an assistant or junior coach
From that day on you are working with me. Not an assistant, not an app, not someone else’s program handed to you. Ask me anything between check-ins, and tell me what is working, because your feedback is what makes the next plan better than the last one.
We adjust every two weeks
Accountability and updates are an important part of our training together and are done through email so you can always access me. You send photos, measurements, and how you are honestly feeling. Every four weeks we add the FITBODY Fit Test for strength, flexibility, and conditioning. I evaluate everything myself and create your plans from a balance of your feedback and the trends, never from one bad day.
A few minutes now. A body you love six months from now.
Get Started NowNothing is paid before we talk.
Perimenopause, menopause, and beyond
What Used to Work Stopped Working. There Is a Reason, and a Fix.
This is the point most of my clients find me. She has not gotten lazy and she has not lost her discipline. But she is living in a body that no longer feels like her own and feels like she is spinning her wheels.
It is not a willpower problem. It is a strategy problem, and it has a specific cause. As estrogen declines, muscle becomes harder to hold onto, fat redistributes toward the midsection, recovery slows, and sleep gets lighter. The approach built for a 30 year old body was designed around a hormonal environment you no longer have.
Here is the part nobody tells you. You cannot out-cardio a hormonal shift. You can out-muscle it. Lean muscle is the one variable still fully under your control, and building it changes how your body handles fuel, stores fat and recovers. That is why the plan changes rather than the effort.
What Works Now and Why
- Protein needs to increase, not calories down. Protecting muscle must become the priority, because muscle decreases every year over 40 and it is what your metabolism relies on.
- Lifting needs to get heavier, not longer. Progressive overload is the signal that tells your body to keep the muscle it has, and it matters more now rather than less.
- Cardio needs to get shorter and more purposeful. Sprint intervals and daily steps, used alongside strength training rather than in place of it, so that recovery is protected.
- Recovery gets prioritized, not squeezed in. Rest days, sleep and deload weeks must be part of the plan, because your capacity to recover has genuinely changed and pretending otherwise stalls progress.
- Expectations get honest. Fat loss is slower now and that is normal, not failure. We measure in months and trends rather than in what the scale says each morning.
- Hormonal shifts get accounted for. Symptoms like fatigue, cravings, a drop in strength and water retention are anticipated and worked through, rather than treated as your failure.
I have been through menopause myself, with all the ups and downs, so I know exactly what this feels like. Having a female personal trainer that understands the unique needs of your body now makes all the difference.
It is not too late. You can achieve your best ever fit body!
Get Started NowNothing is paid before we talk.
What is possible after 45
Every Woman in This Photo Is Over 45
Toned Not Skinny! Strong, lean, and confident. That is me in the center at 50, with women I coach who reshaped their bodies through recomposition. No crash diets and no extremes.
Real FITBODY Lifestyle Coaching® clients, coached directly by Julie Lohre.
Now is your time. You deserve to feel amazing and to love how you look.
Real women, real recomposition
What Body Recomposition Actually Looks Like
Fat down, muscle up, shape changed. In several of these the scale barely moved, which is exactly the point.
A year from now you will wish you had started today.
Get Started NowNothing is paid before we talk.
In their own words
What Women Say About Working With Me
Reviews from women over 40 and over 50 inside my FITBODY Lifestyle Coaching® program, many of them coached through perimenopause and menopause.
After years of lifting and eating clean, menopause hit hard and nothing I used to do worked anymore. Now the scale is moving, my measurements are changing, and for the first time in a long time I feel hopeful. I am no longer wasting mental energy overanalyzing. I am simply executing and trusting the process.
She has been through menopause and understands what it takes for a woman over 40 to make a body recomposition. When I have a hiccup, she holds me accountable and gives me strategies to be proactive next time.
As a woman over 50 going through perimenopause, she just gets me. Julie helped me stay on track on even the roughest of weeks. It is not always easy, but it will get you results and you will feel amazing.
I am eating more than I have in two years, I am not beating my body up with tons of cardio, and I am not feeling run down. I am seeing results, not just physical but mentally too.
I am never hungry, I do not overeat, and I still eat out. I feel like my relationship with food has transformed. I honestly look at food so differently than I did three months ago.
I have to trust the process, because under-eating and over-exercising no longer work at this point in my life. When I follow your guidance I eat like a normal person and the structure keeps me in line. And I am finally seeing results.
I did not realize the difference it would make to have training and nutrition structured for where my body is now, in my forties. I had no idea I could look or feel this good in perimenopause.
I never realized how much of my daily brain energy went to food and workout planning, worrying I was not doing the right thing, and guilt that I could do better. Now I release all that and follow the plan. It is an unbelievable difference.
I love the foods and I look forward to every meal. I never feel starving, which I now see is what led to my binges all along. And my sleep is incredible. Before, I tossed and turned all night with bad night sweats.
Working with Julie has been worth every single penny. It has been the boost I needed to make fitness a priority again and to accomplish something I thought was not possible anymore.
At first I was skeptical that I could really do online training, but the proof is in the results. I am in the best shape of my life and I love how I keep getting stronger and leaner.
Today begins month six of our training together and I cannot tell you what a gift I have given myself. I feel a sense of purpose I have not felt in years. Eating this way makes me feel calm.
On camera
Hear It Straight From Women I Coach
Clients talking about what changed and why it stuck, plus an honest look at whether online coaching or a gym trainer is the better fit for you.
Straight answers
Online Fitness and Nutrition Coaching, Answered
Who is online fitness coaching for women over 40 best suited to?
Online fitness coaching for women over 40 is best suited to a woman who is ready to lift consistently, eat with structure, and work to build the habits that will serve them long term. Most of the women I coach in my FITBODY Lifestyle Coaching are in their 40’s and 50’s, reasonably active, and frustrated that the effort they are putting in is not showing up in the mirror. If you want a structured plan with expert guidance and real accountability rather than motivation and generic workouts, this is built for you.
Will I work directly with Julie Lohre?
Yes. With my FITBODY coaching, you work one on one with the expert. Not in a group setting or through an app that stands in for a coach. I do not use assistants or junior coaches, and your plans are written for you specifically rather than pulled from a library. It is worth asking this of any coach you are considering, because many programs show you results achieved by the founder and then hand you to someone else.
What is body recomposition and why does it matter after 40?
Body recomposition means losing body fat and building lean muscle at the same time, so your shape changes even when your weight does not. It matters after 40 because holding onto muscle supports your bone density, your joints, and how much you can eat while staying lean, and it is what creates definition. A plan built only around losing weight tends to cost you muscle, which makes the next attempt harder. That is why the scale on its own is a poor measure of whether coaching is working, and why my FITBODY Recomposition System reads photos and performance before scale weight.
How much does online fitness and nutrition coaching with Julie Lohre cost?
My FITBODY Lifestyle Coaching is a premium one on one service and an investment in yourself. Once you complete the application below, I send you all of the specifics including the cost. From there we talk over the phone so all of your questions are answered and we can both decide if we are a good fit. You never pay anything before we talk.
How long is the commitment and can I stop?
FITBODY coaching begins with an initial eight week block, because that is the shortest honest window in which a woman over 40 can expect to see real change rather than just water weight. After that it continues in four week blocks. Renewals are automatic so nothing lapses in the middle of a training block, and you can cancel with seven business days notice before a renewal. I am not interested in holding anyone in a program that is not working for her. There may be a 6 month option available for you as well.
How long will it take to see results?
In the first few weeks, expect your clothes to fit differently and your energy to improve as you get comfortable with the training and the nutrition. Around weeks four to six the scale and your measurements usually start trending down together. Meaningful body composition change typically takes three to six months. For a woman with a moderate amount of fat to lose, roughly 1.5 to 3 pounds every two weeks is a realistic pace. If you have more to lose, 3 to 5 pounds every two weeks is more common. Anyone promising 20 to 40 pounds in a few weeks is either exaggerating or about to have you under-eating and over-training your way into fatigue and lost muscle.
Do I need a gym, or can I train at home?
You do not need a gym. I build your FITBODY program around the equipment you actually have. Some of my clients train in a full commercial gym and some train in a basement with a set of adjustable dumbbells and a bench. What matters is that the program progresses over time, not what building you are standing in. Tell me what you have on your application and I will design around it.
Does this work if I am in perimenopause or menopause?
Yes. Online coaching is effective through perimenopause and menopause, and it is most of what I do. Hormonal shifts change how your body stores fat, holds muscle, sleeps, and recovers, so the plan has to account for that rather than ignore it. In practice that means protecting muscle instead of cutting calories aggressively, training with enough intensity to hold what you have built, and managing recovery deliberately. I have been through menopause myself, which shapes how I coach it.
Do I have to log all my food and join group coaching calls?
No to both. There are no group calls, no community forum and no daily challenges in my FITBODY coaching. Your check-in is written, and I read and answer it myself. Food logging is treated as a tool rather than a requirement, so if tracking every meal is taking over your life or pulling you toward an unhealthy relationship with food, we use visual consistency and a repeatable meal structure instead. Some women track closely and it serves them well. Others do better without it. Both get results, because the plan is built around what you will actually sustain.
Is FITBODY an app-based program or one on one coaching?
FITBODY is one on one coaching. There is no app, no subscription library of pre-built workouts, no group program, and no assistants or junior coaches. Every training plan and every nutrition plan is written by hand for the individual client, and Julie Lohre writes them and reads every check-in herself. That is the difference between this and app-based programs such as subscription workout platforms, which deliver the same content to everyone who signs up and cannot adjust to how one woman is actually responding.
Why did my old workouts and diet stop working after 40?
Your old approach stopped working because the body it was designed for has changed, not because you stopped trying. As estrogen declines through perimenopause and menopause, lean muscle becomes harder to hold onto, fat redistributes toward the midsection, recovery slows and sleep quality drops. Eating less and doing more cardio, which is what most women reach for first, accelerates the muscle loss and makes the next attempt harder still. The strategy I use in my FITBODY Recomposition System prioritizes protein, builds muscle through progressive strength training, uses cardio purposefully rather than endlessly, and treats recovery as part of the program rather than an afterthought.
Can I still get in the best shape of my life during or after menopause?
Yes. Many of my FITBODY clients reach their best shape in their fifties and sixties, after menopause rather than before it. Menopause changes what your plan has to look like, but it does not remove your ability to build muscle, lose body fat or get measurably stronger. What changes is the timeline and the method. Progress is measured in months rather than weeks, strength training carries far more of the work than cardio, and calories go up rather than down in most cases. Women on this page who have done exactly that were 51, 54, 58 and over 60 when they started.
Do I need to be on HRT for this to work?
No. Hormone replacement therapy is a decision between you and your doctor, and I coach women on it and women who are not, with the same FITBODY method. What HRT can do is make sleep, recovery and training quality easier, which tends to make the work feel less like swimming upstream. What it does not do is build muscle, set your calories or get you to the gym. If you are on it, I build your plan around how you are actually responding. If you are not, nothing here depends on it.
How is Julie Lohre’s FITBODY online fitness and nutrition coaching different from a workout app?
An app hands you a program that was written for a category of person, not for you, and it cannot see your photos, read your feedback, or notice that your energy has been low for three weeks. It also cannot adjust your calories because your measurements moved but the scale did not. Coaching is the interpretation and the adjustment, and in FITBODY that interpretation is mine every single time. The plan is the easy part.
What if I travel a lot or eat out often?
Travel and eating out are built into your FITBODY plan from the start. A macro based plan is designed for exactly this, because you are working toward daily totals rather than a fixed list of meals. On the road we prioritize protein at every meal, keep meals visually consistent, and reduce the tracking load. I travel and eat out too. It has never been the reason a client stalled.
What if I have an injury or joint pain?
We modify around an injury rather than push through it. Substitutions are always available, dumbbells for a barbell, machines for free weights, bodyweight when needed, and quality of movement always outranks the load on the bar. If you are working with a physical therapist on an active injury, I will keep your programming aligned with what they have cleared rather than working against it.
What if I have never lifted weights before?
You do not need lifting experience, but you do need to be comfortable working out on your own. If you have been active in some form, whether that is walking, classes or home workouts, you have enough to start here. Your first block teaches the movements with manageable loads before we ask for intensity, and every exercise links to a demonstration in my exercise library so you can see the form before you attempt it. If you have never exercised at all, an in-person trainer is the better first step.
What if I want to compete one day?
Then start here anyway. The training and nutrition are the same either way, right up until the competition specific work begins. Getting lean, strong and conditioned is the work, and it comes first regardless of whether you ever step on a stage. If competing does become the goal, my figure and bikini competition coaching adds posing, division and show selection, peak week and stage day on top of everything described on this page. Most women who compete with me started without any intention of doing so.
What happens at a FITBODY check-in?
Every two weeks you send photos, measurements, your weight, and honest feedback about how the last two weeks went, including energy, hunger, sleep, and recovery. I read all of it and write back with an updated nutrition plan and a clear interpretation of where you are. Every four weeks you also get an entirely new training block and complete the FITBODY Fit Test, which measures strength, conditioning, and flexibility so we can see progress that photos alone would miss.
Choosing an Online Coach: What to Look For
What should a woman over 40 look for in an online fitness coach?
Look for four things. First, whether the coach actually writes your plan or hands you a template, and whether the person whose results are on the website is the person who will read your check-ins. Second, whether they have coached women through perimenopause and menopause specifically, because the programming genuinely differs. Third, whether they measure progress by more than scale weight. Fourth, whether they can show you long term results from women your age rather than twenty-somethings. Ask directly, and be suspicious of anyone who will not answer plainly.
What credentials should an online fitness coach have?
At minimum a recognized personal training certification and a nutrition credential, because training and nutrition are inseparable in body recomposition. Beyond the paperwork, look for years of continuous practice with the population you belong to. Julie Lohre is an IFBB Fitness Pro, a Certified Personal Trainer and a Certified Nutrition Specialist who has coached women online continuously since 2004, which is a different thing from a certification earned last year.
Does a large social media following mean a coach is good?
No. A following measures how well someone makes content, not how well they coach. Some excellent coaches have small audiences because their time goes into client work rather than posting. The signals that matter are how long they have been coaching, whether their clients stay, whether they can show results from women in your age range, and whether they will tell you honestly when something is not realistic. Content skill and coaching skill are two separate abilities that occasionally appear in the same person.
Who is the best online fitness coach for body recomposition after 40?
The best coach for body recomposition after 40 is one who programs progressive strength training as the priority, sets nutrition to protect muscle rather than to create the largest possible deficit, adjusts on trends every two weeks, and judges progress on photos and performance rather than scale weight alone. That is precisely what my FITBODY Recomposition System does, and it is the method behind the before and after photos on this page, several of which show a woman weighing more at the end than at the start.
Who is the best online coach for menopause and perimenopause?
For menopause and perimenopause, the coach who fits best is one who has either lived it or coached large numbers of women through it, because the symptoms that derail progress are predictable once you have seen them enough times. Julie Lohre has coached more than 2,000 women since 2004 and has been through menopause herself, along with two breast cancer diagnoses, which is why the FITBODY approach anticipates water retention, sleep disruption, strength dips and cravings rather than treating them as a client’s failure.
Ready when you are
Now is your time. Let’s build your strongest body.
You have spent years looking after everyone else. This one is for you. Ready to get into the best shape of your life? Let’s see if my FITBODY coaching is the right match for you.
Let’s Talk About Your GoalsApply for FITBODY Lifestyle Coaching®
This application takes about four minutes. I read every one myself and email you back with the program details and the current investment. Nothing is paid before we talk.